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Author Topic: How To Eradicate Casteism - जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे  (Read 18499 times)

shailesh

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 09:46:06 PM »
Casteism is a very serious issue in Hindu society, As it is divided in to 4 cast, brahmin , kshtirya, vaisya , shudra. Schedule caste people are most troubled and exploited cast in this religion...and I am still suprised that why these people can not revolt against so called hindu caste system. This caste system is nothing but to satisfies upper cast people ego, if you know there are castes inside cast like in brahmin(naan dhoti baman, thul dhoti baman, haw bani baman, flaan jagak bhatt, falan jagak pandey etc.. )and class hierarchy inside SC's too(people who do leather work are considered inferior than other in SC society by themselves only), people of the society got satisfied by calling themselves superior...

SC's  are the aboriginal people of uttarakhand, they were here before coming brahmin or kshtriya, they are the people who kept our tradition, culture alive, they are the holiyar,  they built wooden product, wooden house, wooden craft, they sing traditional song , they play traditional instrument..they know bronze work....they do all kind of jobs on which a society got established but still they are not treated equally.

And the solution should come from SC community itself, no other people will care for it, and as I feel, the one and only one solution to eradicate this problem is to boycott  religion, if a religion can not give dignity to someone ,then only solution is to boycott that religion. B.R ambedakar shown the right path to the community of SC by converting themselves to buddhism. 

for reading more about casteism, its present and past form in india in other country, Dalit sahitya, and many more..  go to this link of anyatha http://www.anyatha.com/index12.htm  it is monthly published hindi magazine, they have published special edition focused on casteism. i would suggest to read editorial written by krishna  kishore it is very precisely and nicely written and other stories and poetries are also worth reading.

 

   
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पंकज सिंह महर

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : H
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 01:03:49 PM »
सबसे पहले टम्टा जी को यह सामाजिक विषय यहां पर उठाने हेतु धन्यवाद,

यह बात सही है कि हमारा रुढिवादी समाज जातिवाद का प्रबल समर्थक रहा है, जब कि हमारा संविधान भी इसकी इजाजत नहीं देता, इसका मुख्य कारण वही है, जो मेरे पूर्व के लिख्वाडो़ द्वारा लिखा गया है। अशिक्षा....! शिक्षित व्यक्ति इस प्रकार की बातों में विश्वास नहीं करता। हमारे पहाड़ों में यह समस्या आज भी काफी अन्दर तक बैठी है, जिसके निराकरण का प्रयास निरन्तर हो ही रहा है, लेकिन समस्या खत्म नहीं हुई।
      जब हमारा समाज शिक्षित हो जायेगा, तब यह समस्या स्वतः ही समाप्त हो जायेगी। रुढिवादी बुजुर्गों से इस समस्या पर तर्क-वितर्क करना आफत मोल लेना ही है।
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Tanuj Joshi

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : H
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 03:18:14 PM »
Mr. Mehar Ji and Mr. tamta ji, Nobody in this developing culture makes a system at his own. The caste system in India is been for a long time and has created divisive propaganda. As the population has grown and the communities have become strong, this culture has also grown. Even though we might not want to accept it at our own but our government has a clear indication that they want to continue it. When a child is born, he is registered with his religion and his caste.
And Mr. Mehar Ji, our constitution recognises this system properly. Please don't put a mark that it's not recognised by it. Now even though the distance has been reduced, slavery and untouchable system is reduced from the society it's always on the government note. For a political system it's mandatory because their vote bank allows them to do so. Even if people try to neglect the caste system, unless government takes a stnd it'll be an on going issue. Government/Constitution of India should remove this caste system in terms of reservations in studies/job and make everyone feel equally competitive for any position across nation. Then only this system will be deferred for ever..
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एम.एस. मेहता /M S Mehta 9910532720

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : H
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 05:44:50 PM »

Joshi Ji,

What i can say. Presently these currupt politicians are giving a fan to casteesim all over the India as just be their vote.

i would like re-iterate that in coming days this social curse will get automatically removed.


Quote from: tanuj.joshi on March 22, 2009, 03:18:14 PM
Mr. Mehar Ji and Mr. tamta ji, Nobody in this developing culture makes a system at his own. The caste system in India is been for a long time and has created divisive propaganda. As the population has grown and the communities have become strong, this culture has also grown. Even though we might not want to accept it at our own but our government has a clear indication that they want to continue it. When a child is born, he is registered with his religion and his caste.
And Mr. Mehar Ji, our constitution recognises this system properly. Please don't put a mark that it's not recognised by it. Now even though the distance has been reduced, slavery and untouchable system is reduced from the society it's always on the government note. For a political system it's mandatory because their vote bank allows them to do so. Even if people try to neglect the caste system, unless government takes a stnd it'll be an on going issue. Government/Constitution of India should remove this caste system in terms of reservations in studies/job and make everyone feel equally competitive for any position across nation. Then only this system will be deferred for ever..
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Tanuj Joshi

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : H
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 09:38:02 PM »
that was not exactly what I meant to say. It's more political issue now than social. Whether the society denies or accepts caste system, doesn't affect people much but the reservation system based on caste does. When this reservation system is applied for entrance in institutes like IIT, IIM, AIIMS...I don't see this system is easily going to wipe out soon, rather it's gonna create more distances among various castes.
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पंकज सिंह महर

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2009, 10:44:29 AM »
Quote from: tanuj.joshi on March 22, 2009, 03:18:14 PM
And Mr. Mehar Ji, our constitution recognises this system properly. Please don't put a mark that it's not recognised by it.

प्रिय तनुज जी,
      सर्वप्रथम तो आपका स्वागत इस फोरम पर और इस मुद्दे पर अपनी राय रखने के लिये धन्यवाद। संविधान ने अनुसूचित जाति/जनजातियों के लिये आरक्षण का प्राविधान किया है। लेकिन जातिवाद करने का प्रावधान नहीं किया है, जो पिछड़ी जातियां हैं, उनके सामाजिक विकास के लिये संविधान के अनुच्छेद ३३५ में इन वर्गों के लिये आरक्षण की व्यवस्था मात्र १० साल के लिये की गई थी। लेकिन इसका अर्थ यह नहीं निकाला जा सकता है कि संविधान ने भी जातिवाद को आत्मसात कर लिया था। इसलिये जो बात मैने कही कि संविधान इसकी इजाजत नहीं देता है, वह इस परिप्रेक्ष्य में कही, उसे मैं आपके समक्ष उदधृत कर दूं-

भारत के संविधान का अनुच्छेद १५ धर्म, मुलवंश जाति, लिंग या जन्मस्थान के आधार पर विभेद का प्रतिषेध-
धारा १- "राज्य, किसी नागरिक के विरुद्ध धर्म, मूलवंश, जाति, लिंग, जन्मस्थान या इनमें से किसी के आधार पर कोई विभेद नहीं करेगा।"
धारा-२, कोई नागरिक केवल धर्म, मूलवंश, जाति, लिंग, जन्मस्थान या इनमें से किसी के आधार पर-
(क) दुकानों, सार्वजनिक भोजनालयों, होटलों और सार्वजनिक मनोरंजन के स्थानों में प्रवेश, या
(ख) पूर्णतः या भागतः राज्य निधि से पोषित या साधारण जनता के प्रयोग के लिये समर्पित कुओं, तालाबों, स्नानघाटों, सड़कों और आर्वजनिक समागम के स्थानों का उपयोग,
के संबंध में किसी भी निर्योग्यता, दायित्व, निर्बंधन या शर्त के अधीन नहीं होगा।

इसके अतिरिक्त संविधान के अनुच्छेद १६ के अनुसार-
(१) राज्य के अधीन किसी पद पर नियोजन या नियुक्ति से संबंधित विषयों में सभी नागरिकों के लिये अवसर की समता होगी।
(२)  राज्य के अधीन किसी नियोजन या पद के संबंध में केवल धर्म, मूलवंश, जाति, लिंग, उद्भव, जन्मस्थान, निवास या इनमें से किसी के आधार पर न तो कोई नागरिक अपात्र होगा और न उससे विभेद किया जायेगा।

उक्त के आधार पर यह सिद्ध है कि संविधान जाति के नाम पर विभेद करने की इजाजत नहीं देता है।
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Tanuj Joshi

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2009, 08:27:56 PM »
Thnx for a welcome and sorry for using English again :(
I didn't concentrate much on other lines but the first one mentioned in section 16 :
(१) राज्य के अधीन किसी पद पर नियोजन या नियुक्ति से संबंधित विषयों में सभी नागरिकों के लिये अवसर की समता होगी।
I didn't understand what you actually meant to say. But what I had meant was exactly opposite to the above quoted sentence. As per this, there seems to be equality in jobs for any state(must be for the national jobs as well.) which I haven't realized or seen in practice. As per the govt rules some percentage of total seats is always reserved for different categories which makes almost 50% seats reserved. I pity if I'm not correct but the clear contradiction is there in your section of constitution and the reality.
I don't mean by putting my views to have a disparity in eradicating the caste system. I totally realize the need for finishing caste system especially in villages. There has been improvement in this area and the system has less importance in urban places and in rich communities. I had marked reservation system as my key context because even if caste system is not thought about in temples, festivals or any other gathering(less important for majority), the reality makes a big blackhole using the picture of caste based reservation in better studies, better jobs and a better performance in a govt organization. If eradication has to start, everyone should realize the challenges in getting 99 percentile in CAT to get into IIM, better skills to be a doctor from AIIMS and a dedicated improvement in job to get promotions.
If God has given everyone equal opportunities to survive then why human should create disparity. Let everyone be free of caste, go inside every temple, mosque or church and face the same challenges in life to grow and achieve one's pursuit of Happiness....
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एम.एस. मेहता /M S Mehta 9910532720

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 09:26:23 AM »

Joshi JI,

i am quoting a few lines of legendray singer Sh Gopal Babu Goswami Ji's songs which talks about this casteesim.

गोपाल बाबु गोस्वामी गाने के ये लाइन जो कि भाईचारा और आपसी सदभाव पर है:

    कौन छे हरिजन, कौन छे ठाकुर, क्या छे या जनजाति
  यो जाति पाती ले करी हाली मेरो भारत बर्वार्दी
 
  आपुन स्वार्थ लीजी, मैसे ले यो जात बनाई
  ईश्वर घर बे कोई जात नी बनी आयी

Quote from: I love Pahad on March 23, 2009, 08:27:56 PM
Thnx for a welcome and sorry for using English again :(
I didn't concentrate much on other lines but the first one mentioned in section 16 :
(१) राज्य के अधीन किसी पद पर नियोजन या नियुक्ति से संबंधित विषयों में सभी नागरिकों के लिये अवसर की समता होगी।
I didn't understand what you actually meant to say. But what I had meant was exactly opposite to the above quoted sentence. As per this, there seems to be equality in jobs for any state(must be for the national jobs as well.) which I haven't realized or seen in practice. As per the govt rules some percentage of total seats is always reserved for different categories which makes almost 50% seats reserved. I pity if I'm not correct but the clear contradiction is there in your section of constitution and the reality.
I don't mean by putting my views to have a disparity in eradicating the caste system. I totally realize the need for finishing caste system especially in villages. There has been improvement in this area and the system has less importance in urban places and in rich communities. I had marked reservation system as my key context because even if caste system is not thought about in temples, festivals or any other gathering(less important for majority), the reality makes a big blackhole using the picture of caste based reservation in better studies, better jobs and a better performance in a govt organization. If eradication has to start, everyone should realize the challenges in getting 99 percentile in CAT to get into IIM, better skills to be a doctor from AIIMS and a dedicated improvement in job to get promotions.
If God has given everyone equal opportunities to survive then why human should create disparity. Let everyone be free of caste, go inside every temple, mosque or church and face the same challenges in life to grow and achieve one's pursuit of Happiness....
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Tanuj Joshi

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2009, 09:56:39 AM »
Mehta Ji,
Bahut sahi geet yeh likha gaya hai. Dharmvaad, jativaad, bhashvaad sab insaan ka hi banaya hua hai. Aaj jo bhi mukam insaan ne hasil kiye hain wo sabhi jativaad ya dharmavaad se pare hain.
People coped up with poverty, caste system and religion bias to grow and make India grow. We never care what caste or religion Mr. Ambani, Mr. Premji, Dr. Kalam, and none other than Gandhiji are from but we care for what they have done to the nation.
After facing minority in one country and being the president of World's greatest nation, Mr. Obama has proven that if people dream, desire and work in a correct direction there is no obstacle to pave the way to reach pinnacle.
But in India still the majority of population is in a survival mode. 30% People don't get food to eat and 10% don't have shelter to sleep. Instead of focusing on the poor people, our govt or the national parties conglomeration has to play divisive. Still their center point is either religion or the caste. An educated person (e.g. we in this forum) may think that the caste system is not appropriate at the 21st century but the major portion of India (either poor, illeterate or narroow minded) is being led by such system. If the system really needs to be eradicated, it should be barred from political system to avoid any divide and rule kind of propaganda.
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एम.एस. मेहता /M S Mehta 9910532720

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Re: जातिवाद (एक सामाजिक मुद्दा) कैसे को दूर करे : How to Eradicate Caste Issue
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 02:41:50 PM »

Well said Joshi JI.

Corrupt politicians have been always behind creating caste related this jus to get their politicial benefits.



Quote from: Tanuj Joshi on March 24, 2009, 09:56:39 AM
Mehta Ji,
Bahut sahi geet yeh likha gaya hai. Dharmvaad, jativaad, bhashvaad sab insaan ka hi banaya hua hai. Aaj jo bhi mukam insaan ne hasil kiye hain wo sabhi jativaad ya dharmavaad se pare hain.
People coped up with poverty, caste system and religion bias to grow and make India grow. We never care what caste or religion Mr. Ambani, Mr. Premji, Dr. Kalam, and none other than Gandhiji are from but we care for what they have done to the nation.
After facing minority in one country and being the president of World's greatest nation, Mr. Obama has proven that if people dream, desire and work in a correct direction there is no obstacle to pave the way to reach pinnacle.
But in India still the majority of population is in a survival mode. 30% People don't get food to eat and 10% don't have shelter to sleep. Instead of focusing on the poor people, our govt or the national parties conglomeration has to play divisive. Still their center point is either religion or the caste. An educated person (e.g. we in this forum) may think that the caste system is not appropriate at the 21st century but the major portion of India (either poor, illeterate or narroow minded) is being led by such system. If the system really needs to be eradicated, it should be barred from political system to avoid any divide and rule kind of propaganda.
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